On Golden Pond
- philhoraia
- May 24, 2023
- 5 min read
In this post we shall be looking at Allah's throne. Allah's throne we are told is on 'the' water. What water this is, we are not told.
S 11:7 And he is the one who created the skies and the Earth in six days. And his throne was on the water to test you, which of you is best in deed. But if you say: You are raised after death, those who have disbelieved will say: This is nothing but obvious magic.
In the verse, it was on the water.
Abdallah b. 'Amr reported God’s messenger as saying, “God recorded the fates of all creatures 50,000 years before creating the heavens and the earth, and His throne was upon the water.” Muslim transmitted it.
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "The Right (Hand) of Allah Is full, and (Its fullness) is not affected by the continuous spending night and day. Do you see what He has spent since He created the Heavens and the Earth? Yet all that has not decreased what is in His Right Hand. His Throne is over the water and in His other Hand is the Bounty or the Power to bring about death, and He raises some people and brings others down." (See Hadith No. 508)
Narrated Waki' bin Hudus:
from his uncle Abu Razin who said: "I said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Where was our Lord before He created His creation?' He said: 'He was (above) the clouds - no air was under him, no air was above him, and He created His Throne upon the water.'" Ahmad [bin Mani'] said: "Yazid bin Harun said (regarding) the air - 'It means there was nothing with him."
If there are clouds, are they uncreated? Is the water? Of course, the idea of 'the water' is derived from Genesis in which we read that God's Spirit hovered over the surface of the water (Genesis 1). But did Allah's boss think that it was the sea? See below.
Satan too has a throne. From an Answering Islam article:
The reason why this happens to be the most fascinating aspect of Allah’s throne is because, according to the same so-called authentic ahadith, Satan’s throne is also located upon the water!
Jabir reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The throne of Iblis is upon the ocean and he sends detachments (to different parts) in order to put people to trial and the most important figure in his eyes is one who is most notorious in sowing the seed of dissension. (Sahih Muslim, Book 039, Number 6754)
And:
Jabir reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Iblis places his throne upon water; he then sends detachments (for creating dissension); the nearer to him in tank are those who are most notorious in creating dissension. One of them comes and says: I did so and so. And he says: You have done nothing. Then one amongst them comes and says: I did not spare so and so until I sowed the seed of discord between a husband and a wife. The Satan goes near him and says: You have done well. A'mash said: He then embraces him. (Sahih Muslim, Book 039, Number 6755)
Finally:
Abu Sa'id reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) met him (Ibn Sayyad) and so did Abu Bakr and 'Umar on some of the roads of Medina. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Do you bear testimony to the fact that I am the Messenger of Allah? Thereupon he said: Do you bear testimony to the fact that I am the messenger of Allah? Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I affirm my faith in Allah and in His Angels and in His Books, and what do you see? He said: I see the throne over water. Whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: You see the throne of Iblis upon the water, and what else do you see? He said: I see two truthfuls and a liar or two liars and one truthful. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Leave him He has been confounded. (Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6992)
With the foregoing in view does this mean that Satan is a co-occupant of Allah’s throne, that he and Allah share the same throne? In fact, can a Muslim cite a supposed authentic text stating that there are other individuals besides Allah and Satan that have a throne situated upon the water?
Or should we interpret this to mean that Satan expelled Allah from his throne upon the water and now has control over creation?
Worse still, should we actually see this as further proof that the Allah of Islam is actually the Devil masquerading as god? It seems so, especially when we take into consideration that the Quran boasts that Allah is the best deceiver/schemer/trickster/conniver/cheat of them all and that he perverts/misguides/corrupts people in the same way that Satan does (*; *; *). Satan on Allah's throne
Ibn Sayyad appears to have been a mystic. See Islam Critiqued's videos.
Now, if Satan's throne is on the ocean or sea, is Allah's? Did the sea always exist? Is Allah's throne like a boat or a ship floating in the sea? The word bahr can mean a large river. Is Allah like a frog sitting on a lily pad? As eight angels supposedly carry it, how might they do so? Do they somehow swim with it above their heads? A Look at S 69:17
In this hadith we read:
"The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "Then I will go beneath Allah's Throne and fall in prostration before my Lord."
From being ABOVE the throne Allah would now be BELOW it? If the throne is on water, would Allah's boss be wearing SCUBA gear? Is Allah a fish? Is it like the Man from Atlantis?
Jibril supposedly appeared to Allah's boss in the air, on 'the' throne.
Yahya reported:
I asked Abu Salama what was revealed first from the Qur'an. He said:" 0, the shrouded one." I said: Or" Recite." Jabir said: I am narrating to you what was narrated to us by the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ). He said: I stayed in Hira' for one month and when my stay was completed, I come down and went into the heart of the valley. Somebody called me aloud. I looked in front of me, behind me, on the right of my side and on my left, but I did not see any body. I was again called and I looked about but saw nothing. I was called again and raised my head, and there on the Throne in the open atmosphere he, i. e. Gabriel (peace be upon him) was sitting. I began to tremble on account of fear. I came to Khadija and said: Wrap me up. They wrapped me up and threw water on me and Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, sent down this: you who are shrouded! arise and deliver warning, your Lord magnify, your clothes cleanse."
As the article is used before 'throne', it's a specific throne. Whose? Would it not be Allah's? If this was Jib, what was he doing on Allah's throne? And if this throne was in the air, did it fly?
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